Do you consider yourself a feminist?

[MOB Karen]

:kiss: Feminism:

1. The belief that women and men are, and have been, treated
differently by our society, and that women have frequently
and systematically been unable to participate fully in all
social arenas and institutions.
2. A desire to change that situation.
3. That this gives a "new" point-of-view on society, when
eliminating old assumptions about why things are the way
they are, and looking at it from the perspective that women
are not inferior and men are not "the norm."

[MOB Karen]

Ok, I do consider myself a feminist, but I'm not a militant about it. Not even close. LOL!! :pompom:

[ladymelissa]

I guess, based on the definition provided, I would be a feminist. I cannot deny that women were treated as 2nd class citizens and I think we have come a very long way. I just want everyone to be treated as equals esp. when it comes to careers, jobs, voting and ownership power (able to purchase land, houses, businesses etc.). I don't think there is much of a problem in those areas anymore though, so is there much need for feminists?

I would hope one day, if the right candidate comes along that there would even be a women president. I would not vote for her just b/c she is a woman, she would also have to be the best choice.

Now in my private life, I like to be treated a little better than the man by the man. I like to have my car door opened for me or have him help with my coat, Mike has always done this so it's what I am used to. I will open the second door to a restaurant or something if I get there first, I don't like just standing there waiting, but he usually runs to get there before me. Maybe I am a hypocrite? Where does chivalry leave off and equality begin?

The person who asks the other out, should pay for the date (if I were single).

[70707Bride]

I am a feminist. This world is so male dominated and always will be. Women and men will never be equal, as in jobs. We do not get paid the same. I took a Human Resources class this past spring. We learned that women will never be treated or get paid equally as men do, but since my generation is learning so much about it, that when my age group is in the top position somewhere, they will be able to change that because we are learning how important it is.

[LaceyinPgh]

Absolutely. I am 100% a proud, shout it from the roof tops, feminist. I am member of NOW (National Organization for Women). As far as I am concerend, women are still making less than men, feeling that they have to pick career or family, being discriminated against and harassed in the work place, bbeing discriminated against in the military, and in many places still being treated as second class citizens still by their local, state, and federal governments.

Being a feminist doesn't stop at US boarders. It is a global thought. Some countries in armed conflict still use rape as a militray tactic. (And you thought the Viking days were over.) I can easily name several nations where women dont have sufferage. There are still cultures that practice female infanticide because having a daughter is a shame to the family. I fight fo rmy rights and the rights of women anywhere. We are no different than men just because we were born with vaginas. (Which by the way, I am proud to have!)

Frankly, I am smarter than a hell of a lot of men that I have met. I sure as hell handle stress and stay in control better too. I am stronger mentally and emotionally. I can do their job and mine in most cases. I see no reason that I can't fly a fighter a jet or serve on the front lines of armed combat. I don't know why I have to be made to feel bad if I go back to work after having a baby. I am far more compassionate but tougher when it matters. I can open my own **** door and that chair slides out just as easily for my as it does for my husband. I love my body and feel as though NO ONE gets to make the decisions that govern it, including my husband or partner. I see no reason that I shouldn't run the free world if I wanted to. Men have been doing it for thousands of years and look at where we are at.

[Kacie_bride]

Well I voted no. I didn't vote this way because I don't support most feminist movements. I just involved with anything like NOW or any other organization.

I am like Melissa. I like my doors being opened by Justin. I like him going to get the car when it is raining and other acts of chivarly. However, I do think women are not paid equally. I believe I was discriminated from getting a job at one time because I am female. There are also little things that I feel are not equal. I do know that women in other countries have it far worse than we do.

[WebLady]

I suppose I am to a point. I definitely think women deserve the same rights and privileges as a man. But I also like to be treated like a lady sometimes KWIM

[AllyM1]

I said no. I like to be treated with respect and treated equally. I feel that women just like anyone else needs to earn her way to the top, not just get it because she feels she should. I feel this for everyone... you should not get a job just because you are white, black, male, etc. You should work your *** off just as hard as everyone else and nothing should be handed to you.

I personally cannot stand the feminazi movement going on in America these days. This is no offense to women out there who consider themselves feminist, because you have every right to fee the way you do. But I'm just not that way.

[mariaandmanish]

I agree with Ally and Brandi - I believe in equality, but that its earned, not just given based on gender or race or anything more than work. But, I also want to be treated like a lady.

[LizabethDavis]

Well I voted no. I didn't vote this way because I don't support most feminist movements. I just involved with anything like NOW or any other organization.

I am like Melissa. I like my doors being opened by Justin. I like him going to get the car when it is raining and other acts of chivarly. However, I do think women are not paid equally. I believe I was discriminated from getting a job at one time because I am female. There are also little things that I feel are not equal. I do know that women in other countries have it far worse than we do.

I agree with this statement and ladymelissa's as well. I like being treated like a lady, but I think there are somethings, like pay, where women are still being treated unfairly.

[ladymelissa]

I said no. I like to be treated with respect and treated equally. I feel that women just like anyone else needs to earn her way to the top, not just get it because she feels she should. I feel this for everyone... you should not get a job just because you are white, black, male, etc. You should work your *** off just as hard as everyone else and nothing should be handed to you.

I personally cannot stand the feminazi movement going on in America these days. This is no offense to women out there who consider themselves feminist, because you have every right to fee the way you do. But I'm just not that way.

I agree that nothing should be given to a woman, just b/c she is a woman; it should be earned. BUT before the feminist movement woman could not get a job, own land or even vote simply b/c they were women.

[WebLady]

Well I agree that women were once (and sometimes still are) treated as lesser people and didn't have many of the rights we do today. But we have come a long way since then (and I'm happy for those that stood up to give us what we have today) and for the most part I am happy.

The thing that I don't agree with is the 'feminazi' (stole that from Ally ;)) women that have a fit over even the smallest little thing. Like being called a chick or a girl instead of a woman, I just don't see the big deal, but that is just me I guess.

And like I said before, I like it when a man treats me like an equal, in life and in the work place, respects my opinion and things like that ... but I also like to have doors opened for me and little things like that. It doesn't make me feel like I am less of a person or I couldn't do these things myself, I just see it as respectful.

[ladymelissa]

but I also like to have doors opened for me and little things like that. It doesn't make me feel like I am less of a person or I couldn't do these things myself, I just see it as respectful.
I love the way you put it, "respect." That is the line bet. feminism and chivalry, IMO. While I believe everyone is equal, I will hold a door for the person behind me, regardless of their sex; it's just polite. I still thank Mike everytime he does something nice for me (like open a door or whatever) b/c it's not required and he is being very polite and respectful.

[Kacie_bride]

I love the way you put it, "respect." That is the line bet. feminism and chivalry, IMO. While I believe everyone is equal, I will hold a door for the person behind me, regardless of their sex; it's just polite. I still thank Mike everytime he does something nice for me (like open a door or whatever) b/c it's not required and he is being very polite and respectful.

I agree with you and Brandi on this one! It is polite to the hold the door open for others. I do it all the time regardless of sex. Justin does it all the time too. He was taught to do this. My brother was taught to do that from my parents and we will teach our male children to treat women with that kind of respect. We will also teach our female children that it is polite to hold doors open for people, but a man should respect her and do these things for her as well. I personally would not be with a man who would not hold open doors for me.

[rainbowtreat]

I will fight for my right but I dont consider myself a feminist. I beleive as others have stated about getting what you have worked for. I also liked having doors opened for me and the little things like that that Nihcolas does for me. But I look at it more as he wants to do these things for me. He wants to show me in as many ways as he can that he loves me and he will do anything for me. I dont look at it as if he is doing this because I am the woman and he is the man and it is required. I also will hold doors for whoever isbehind me or let some one go through before me regarless sex or race. Now those people who walk through the door and let it slam in your face or the ones who push their way through and dont even say so much as thank you piss me off.

I think we should be equal to the men. But I dont get all upset becaue a man didnt open a door for me or walked in before me. Or didnt pull out my chair for me. As I wont get mad if they do do these things for me. If that made any sense lol.

[MOB Karen]

I am a feminist in the sense that, if I am doing the same work as a man, I want to be paid the same too. But I don't want to be a man!

I am not so much a feminist that it would bother me to be called a chick, a girl, or even a broad for that matter. That doesn't bother me in the least. And I like being a woman, doing girly stuff, feeling feminine, and I also like to be treated like a lady. :kiss:

[WebLady]

... Now those people who walk through the door and let it slam in your face or the ones who push their way through and dont even say so much as thank you piss me off ...
Me Too! :irked:

[CarlosHoney]

I am, but I recognise that men and women are different creatures. I know that women are better at certain things. Boys and Girls develop at a different pace, and they prefer different things.

But I think that there ought to be fair wages, all civil rights, and (of course) reproductive rights.

[AllyM1]

I agree with you ladies... I want to be treated like a lady. When we go to a restaurant, I will stand there until Bryan opens the door for me... "It's not my job!" But sometimes I will to be cute.

I just hate when people feel they should be "above" someone else. I hate affirmative action because it's still discrimination!

I don't know about situations where women are being paid less than men. I have always had jobs where I was offered pay depending on my experience.

What type of jobs do you guys feel women are being paid less? I'm just curious..

[CarlosHoney]

I agree with you ladies... I want to be treated like a lady. When we go to a restaurant, I will stand there until Bryan opens the door for me... "It's not my job!" But sometimes I will to be cute.

I just hate when people feel they should be "above" someone else. I hate affirmative action because it's still discrimination!

I don't know about situations where women are being paid less than men. I have always had jobs where I was offered pay depending on my experience.

What type of jobs do you guys feel women are being paid less? I'm just curious..Here's what I'm talking about... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.iwpr.org/States2004/PDFs/IWPRFinalPressrelease4-20-04.pdf&e=9797&sig=__8-zhFF0A_CyYjyN9ni4ebZ8onQs=)

[AllyM1]

This article doesn't say if they have the same qualifications or not.

I can see the argument, but I have to say that because it's coming from a woman's group, the article may be biased to a certain degree.

Like I said, I believe everyone, no matter race or sex, should work for their money. It should not be given to you just because you are a women or just because you are black, etc.

[ladymelissa]

The article takes the entire population of women (or subcategory of women) in an area, finds the average income as a whole and compares it to the average income of all the men in the same area. It does not compare the same jobs head to head.

The last year referenced was also 2002, so it is at least 4 years old.

[WebLady]

I had one experience that I feel I was discrimated againist for being a woman ... I was passed up for a promotion, it was given to a man that had been with the company for less time than I had and I trained him! I think he got the job partly because he was a man and he was older than me. Sure I complained, but all they did was make excuses.

If I was the person I am now back then, I might have sued. Granted I wouldn't have want them giving me the job just because I was a woman or because I complained, but I had just has much experience (and with that company) and I had been there longer than the guy. If I was good enough to train the man then why wasn't I good enough to make the money he did?! Anyway, I wasn't there but a month or two after that.

[CarlosHoney]

This article doesn't say if they have the same qualifications or not.

I can see the argument, but I have to say that because it's coming from a woman's group, the article may be biased to a certain degree.

Like I said, I believe everyone, no matter race or sex, should work for their money. It should not be given to you just because you are a women or just because you are black, etc.I've heard these things on the news, though.. I know that it's a known fact.. Here's another article.

http://management.silicon.com/careers/0,39024671,39129458,00.htm

[ladymelissa]

If I was the person I am now back then, I might have sued. Granted I wouldn't have want them giving me the job just because I was a woman or because I complained, but I had just has much experience (and with that company) and I had been there longer than the guy. If I was good enough to train the man then why wasn't I good enough to make the money he did?! Anyway, I wasn't there but a month or two after that.
This is the sort of thing that ticks me off. What were their excuses?

[AllyM1]

Weblady, I had a similiar experience...I lost out to two different jobs that I was well qualified for (4 years experience) to two women who were of a different race. One had been in my field for less than a year the other just under 2. There was no reason that I should have not gotten either of those jobs... the only thing was that I am white.

Those two girls, are my best friends, and I LOVE them to death.. it's not their fault... Affirmative action is bs and any other thing that puts someone above another based solely on race or gender.

Oh and they didn't take the jobs because of that.

I hate losing positions to anyone who has less qualifications, it's just not right.

[WebLady]

This is the sort of thing that ticks me off. What were their excuses?
They said he had for years experience with another competing company (I have 5 yrs experience with that company) and he was more willing to travel than I was :bbrolleyes:

[ladymelissa]

They said he had for years experience with another competing company (I have 5 yrs experience with that company) and he was more willing to travel than I was :bbrolleyes:
Was he more willing to travel than you?

[WebLady]

Was he more willing to travel than you?
Well sort of, but that wasn't a big part of the job. And he got the spot I wanted that was well within the area I wanted to be. The thing that bothered me the most about the situation is that I trained the guy.

But anyway ... a few months after I left that guy quit and they tried to get me to come back ;) But it was like too little too late by then :p

[LaceyinPgh]

I am going to say this, I have worked my a$$ off for EVERYTHING that I have. I'll be damned if some man is going to get to pass me up for an oppourtunity that I am as qualified if not more so for. It will be a cold day in Hell before I make less money for doing the same job because of one tiny chromosome. And, if someone is dumb enough to think that I am going to let that fly, they deserve whatever befalls them. Because my mouth DOESN'T stay closed. My place is wherever I want to be through my work and actions. It isn't where some person feels the desire to prescribe me to be.

I don't feel the need to have my husband open my door or get the car fo rme when it is raining. My arms work just fine. I surely am not so sweet that I will melt if I get wet. I don't want to be treated like a "lady" because frankly, I have never and will never prance around in a corset and bustle fanning myself when I swoon. The minute you thnk that you desreve to be treated differently, is the minute that you get treated differently. You can't decide to be a lady when going to dinner and then demands equal rights the next day at the office. It is all or none in my book.

Now you might all think I'm a b!tch. (Which in many situations I find a compliment.) But, few things are more important to me than protecting reproductive rights (I don't ever feel the need to be barefoot and pregnant), the right to not have to face violence in my home because I am the "weaker sex", economic equality and freedom, working towards an end of racial diversity (ethnic minorities, especially women and children are more likely to live BELOW the povery level), homosexual rights (or as I call it, the new Civil Rights Movement that effects women AND men, gay and straight), health rights (studies prove women seek medical treatment for themselves less and are less likely to have health insurance, if they are sick, who is providing for their children), and global feminism (because it might still be unequal here but in other parts of the world it is curse to wake up and realize that you are a woman).

By the way, you can ask people, it isn't smart to call me a chick or a girl. The last time I looked, I wasn't pecking around a barnyard looking for meal worms. And, I haven't been a girl in many years. I would bet that Girl Scout uniform wouldn't ever get back on this body no matter how anorexic I became.

For those of you that want to call me a feminazi, I have this to say: if it wasn't for women like me who worked their a$$e$ off for you to have universal sufferage, property rights, marriage rights, reproductive rights, educational rights, and economic freedoms from you husbands and fathers; you wouldn't be able to say a **** thing. You would be stuck living like it was still the 1800's doing and saying what the men in your life told you to do and say. Be HAPPY that women faced persecution, jail, and banishment from their lives because they felt you deserved to make choices in your life that were being denied to them. If being a feminazi puts me in the catagory of some of those women, it is a title I will wear with pride. Be happy that there are still woman like me out there fighting for YOUR rights as well.

And those of you who think the problem is just a part of our society that will never change, SHAME ON YOU! You are almost as bad as the ones actually causing it because you are looking away.

You can love me or hate me. I have never cared which one you picked. But I am proud to be a woman. I don't want treated like a man. I don't want treated like a lady. I want treated like a human being! And, since we are all humans it should reason that we would all be treated the same regardless of gender, race, religion, ethnicity, or creed.

[CarlosHoney]

I am going to say this, I have worked my a$$ off for EVERYTHING that I have. I'll be damned if some man is going to get to pass me up for an oppourtunity that I am as qualified if not more so for. It will be a cold day in Hell before I make less money for doing the same job because of one tiny chromosome. And, if someone is dumb enough to think that I am going to let that fly, they deserve whatever befalls them. Because my mouth DOESN'T stay closed. My place is wherever I want to be through my work and actions. It isn't where some person feels the desire to prescribe me to be.

I don't feel the need to have my husband open my door or get the car fo rme when it is raining. My arms work just fine. I surely am not so sweet that I will melt if I get wet. I don't want to be treated like a "lady" because frankly, I have never and will never prance around in a corset and bustle fanning myself when I swoon. The minute you thnk that you desreve to be treated differently, is the minute that you get treated differently. You can't decide to be a lady when going to dinner and then demands equal rights the next day at the office. It is all or none in my book.

Now you might all think I'm a b!tch. (Which in many situations I find a compliment.) But, few things are more important to me than protecting reproductive rights (I don't ever feel the need to be barefoot and pregnant), the right to not have to face violence in my home because I am the "weaker sex", economic equality and freedom, working towards an end of racial diversity (ethnic minorities, especially women and children are more likely to live BELOW the povery level), homosexual rights (or as I call it, the new Civil Rights Movement that effects women AND men, gay and straight), health rights (studies prove women seek medical treatment for themselves less and are less likely to have health insurance, if they are sick, who is providing for their children), and global feminism (because it might still be unequal here but in other parts of the world it is curse to wake up and realize that you are a woman).

By the way, you can ask people, it isn't smart to call me a chick or a girl. The last time I looked, I wasn't pecking around a barnyard looking for meal worms. And, I haven't been a girl in many years. I would bet that Girl Scout uniform wouldn't ever get back on this body no matter how anorexic I became.

For those of you that want to call me a feminazi, I have this to say: if it wasn't for women like me who worked their a$$e$ off for you to have universal sufferage, property rights, marriage rights, reproductive rights, educational rights, and economic freedoms from you husbands and fathers; you wouldn't be able to say a **** thing. You would be stuck living like it was still the 1800's doing and saying what the men in your life told you to do and say. Be HAPPY that women faced persecution, jail, and banishment from their lives because they felt you deserved to make choices in your life that were being denied to them. If being a feminazi puts me in the catagory of some of those women, it is a title I will wear with pride. Be happy that there are still woman like me out there fighting for YOUR rights as well.

And those of you who think the problem is just a part of our society that will never change, SHAME ON YOU! You are almost as bad as the ones actually causing it because you are looking away.

You can love me or hate me. I have never cared which one you picked. But I am proud to be a woman. I don't want treated like a man. I don't want treated like a lady. I want treated like a human being! And, since we are all humans it should reason that we would all be treated the same regardless of gender, race, religion, ethnicity, or creed.That was beautiful. :soppy: I love you Lacey!!! You really *are* my hero!!!!!!! :grinhappy:

[LaceyinPgh]

That was beautiful. :soppy: I love you Lacey!!! You really *are* my hero!!!!!!! :grinhappy:
You know I love you too. :penguin:

[Orgirl1969]

I said no. I like to be treated with respect and treated equally. I feel that women just like anyone else needs to earn her way to the top, not just get it because she feels she should. I feel this for everyone... you should not get a job just because you are white, black, male, etc. You should work your *** off just as hard as everyone else and nothing should be handed to you.

I personally cannot stand the feminazi movement going on in America these days. This is no offense to women out there who consider themselves feminist, because you have every right to fee the way you do. But I'm just not that way.

I agree, but...based on the definitions provided, I might be tempted to swing towards the "feminist" side. I think women (and minorities) should be given equal opportunity and respect, but I don't feel anyone should be handed anything they didn't earn based on gender, race, orientation or economic status.

For example, I was married to a firefighter for several years. His job was difficult and physically demanding and he had to pass a strenuous test just to get his position in the first place. At one point, the department needed a couple of new people and tested several applicants, two of which were women. There were no women on the department and the city was feeling pressure to hire at least one. Problem was, neither lady could pass the physical agility test. For awhile, the city considered lowering the standards of the physical exam just to hire a woman! I have no problem with a woman being on the department at all, but she should be able to pass ALL the tests, just like the men, without the bar being lowered. Firefighters have to rely on their team and I certainly didn't want my husband being backed up by someone that couldn't do the job. I know that there are frequent exceptions, but taken as a whole, I often feel that there are some jobs that men just do better and some that women do better.

My FH is a teacher/coach and I'm a nurse. He does make a little bit more than me, but I would make just the same as he if our positions were reversed.

Lacey: Power on, woman! I have worked my *** off for everything I've gotten and even though I love having a man in my life, I have certainly been able to take care of myself for a number of years on my own, and I'm very proud of that.

[MOB Karen]

You know, it's all well and good with all this "I am woman, hear me roar" mentality. But not all of us had a healthy, positive upbringing to be able to roar just yet. Thank you to anyone who feels like they have battled for my rights as a woman. But my biggest battle for womanhood was in my own home, and not on the suffragette line, and no one outside of our family could help us there.

I was raised to believe that men were superior to women. That's the way my parents were raised, and that's the way they raised us. And this is in a family with 3 daughters and one son. I was born into a family that only wanted a son. My father wanted someone to carry on his name. Well, my Mother had three girls before having their boy. My brother was the only one of us who was breastfed because my mother didn't want girls sucking on her breasts. My brother could do no wrong. The girls could never do anything right.

Needless to say, my sisters dropped out of high school and got married at 16. I graduated from high school, but joined the Army right away. I honestly believe, all of us girls did this to get away from home.

I'm not a failure in life. I have a Bachelor's Degree, and make almost $50 grand a year, but I have this emotional baggage that I carry around with me, and probably will for the rest of my life. Parents, especially Mothers, can't do this to their little girls and expect that they will grow up healthy. They have to treat their children equally and love them equally and unconditionally too.

Amber has way more self-esteem than me or my sisters, and that boils down to one fact. Because she knows that I love her no matter what, and she knows that I believe she can do anything a man can do, and probably better. :jplove:

[Orgirl1969]

Karen, I commend you for not letting cycle repeat itself with your daughter. Sometimes the best we can learn from our parents and the way we were raised is how NOT to raise our own children. And congrats to you for not letting your parents mentality keep you from accomplishing the things that you have done!

[MOB Karen]

Karen, I commend you for not letting cycle repeat itself with your daughter. Sometimes the best we can learn from our parents and the way we were raised is how NOT to raise our own children. And congrats to you for not letting your parents mentality keep you from accomplishing the things that you have done!

Thank you, Orgirl! I was lucky in the fact that my Dad just went along with my Mother, but he genuinely loved his little girls. He's dead now, but I loved him very much, and think fondly of him to this day. I love my Mother too, but we seriously have issues. Amber says that life is too short, and I need to get over it. But that's easier said than done. My Mother was a destroyer, I honestly believe that. She broke her girls down from the day they were born. She never said anything positive to either of us.

To this day, my Mother always says, that I never call her, and I don't love her. I don't have this driving need to call her because I get absolutely no comfort from her, like most people get from their Mothers. I know she is going to die one day, and I am going to miss her very much, because she's the only Mother I ever had. She was a bad one, but she was all I ever had. We always tried our best to please her, but there was no pleasing my Mother.

My Mother is the type of woman, that never cries. I told everyone on Onewed this before, she didn't even cry at "Old Yeller." Only robots don't cry at Old Yeller. She's cold like that though, she's not what you would call a "huggable" Mother. You feel awkward hugging my Mother. But I do feel fortunate that I did have a Daddy that was very huggable. I think that might be why I'm not a mass murderer to this day. LOL!!! Thanks again! :D

[ladymelissa]

For example, I was married to a firefighter for several years. His job was difficult and physically demanding and he had to pass a strenuous test just to get his position in the first place. At one point, the department needed a couple of new people and tested several applicants, two of which were women. There were no women on the department and the city was feeling pressure to hire at least one. Problem was, neither lady could pass the physical agility test. For awhile, the city considered lowering the standards of the physical exam just to hire a woman! I have no problem with a woman being on the department at all, but she should be able to pass ALL the tests, just like the men, without the bar being lowered. Firefighters have to rely on their team and I certainly didn't want my husband being backed up by someone that couldn't do the job. I know that there are frequent exceptions, but taken as a whole, I often feel that there are some jobs that men just do better and some that women do better.

I could not agree more! I wouldn't want a less than capable firefighter to come to my aid, either.

Karen- I am so glad you turned out so wonderful! :hug:

I was raised to believe women could do or be anything they wanted to. That is why in my first post I even wondered if this was still much of an issue. I also believe that if my husband chooses to go out of his way and do something nice for me, human courtesy would dictate that I should graciously accept the gesture.

[LaceyinPgh]

Thank you, Orgirl! I was lucky in the fact that my Dad just went along with my Mother, but he genuinely loved his little girls. He's dead now, but I loved him very much, and think fondly of him to this day. I love my Mother too, but we seriously have issues. Amber says that life is too short, and I need to get over it. But that's easier said than done. My Mother was a destroyer, I honestly believe that. She broke her girls down from the day they were born. She never said anything positive to either of us.

To this day, my Mother always says, that I never call her, and I don't love her. I don't have this driving need to call her because I get absolutely no comfort from her, like most people get from their Mothers. I know she is going to die one day, and I am going to miss her very much, because she's the only Mother I ever had. She was a bad one, but she was all I ever had. We always tried our best to please her, but there was no pleasing my Mother.

My Mother is the type of woman, that never cries. I told everyone on Onewed this before, she didn't even cry at "Old Yeller." Only robots don't cry at Old Yeller. She's cold like that though, she's not what you would call a "huggable" Mother. You feel awkward hugging my Mother. But I do feel fortunate that I did have a Daddy that was very huggable. I think that might be why I'm not a mass murderer to this day. LOL!!! Thanks again! :D
Karen, my grandmother was the exact same way with my mother. My mother can do nothing right but my three uncles can do no wrong. My mother was taught that she had to give up everything for her 3 brothers. Education was wasted on girls. One of the biggest fights my mother and grandmother ever had was when my mom "let" me go to college. My grandmother saw no reason that I shouldn't have just gotten married and had a baby. She told my mother that my mother was already causing me to be behind in life because she let me finish high school. (I mean who the hell doens't want to get married at the ripe old age of 16 to start cranking out babies.)

My mother has a lot of self esteem issues. She has a lot of martyr issues. She has a lot of nothing I ever do is good enough issues I saw that growing up and decided that there was no way in hell I was going to let other people's ignorant choices have an impact on my life. My mother made sure of the same thing. I commend you for the way that you raised Amber. I'm close to my mother but to be honest, I am very glad that she finally is seeing a professional about her issues. It is slowly making her a happier person.

[MOB Karen]

Karen, my grandmother was the exact same way with my mother. My mother can do nothing right but my three uncles can do no wrong. My mother was taught that she had to give up everything for her 3 brothers. Education was wasted on girls. One of the biggest fights my mother and grandmother ever had was when my mom "let" me go to college. My grandmother saw no reason that I shouldn't have just gotten married and had a baby. She told my mother that my mother was already causing me to be behind in life because she let me finish high school. (I mean who the hell doens't want to get married at the ripe old age of 16 to start cranking out babies.)

My mother has a lot of self esteem issues. She has a lot of martyr issues. She has a lot of nothing I ever do is good enough issues I saw that growing up and decided that there was no way in hell I was going to let other people's ignorant choices have an impact on my life. My mother made sure of the same thing. I commend you for the way that you raised Amber. I'm close to my mother but to be honest, I am very glad that she finally is seeing a professional about her issues. It is slowly making her a happier person.

Amber says the same thing about me. I'm trying to be a martyr. So I tried to go into counseling, but I hate blaming all my problems on my Mother. It's like, you get so tired of saying, "if it wasn't for this, I would be such a wonderful person right now." Because the answer is always, "make it wonderful for yourself, regardless of how you were raised." I know that this is always going to be the answer, but it's so hard for me to let it go. I think if I got one apology from my Mother, it would heal a lot of wounds. But she says that she did nothing wrong, I am the one who hurt the family, and I am the one to blame for everything. So we are at this impasse and that's where we sit to this day.

[WebLady]

Karen, I commend you for not letting cycle repeat itself with your daughter. Sometimes the best we can learn from our parents and the way we were raised is how NOT to raise our own children. And congrats to you for not letting your parents mentality keep you from accomplishing the things that you have done!

Here, here ... rock on Karen :hug:

... To this day, my Mother always says, that I never call her, and I don't love her. I don't have this driving need to call her because I get absolutely no comfort from her, like most people get from their Mothers. I know she is going to die one day, and I am going to miss her very much, because she's the only Mother I ever had.

I feel much the same about my mother but for different reasons. I do love her but we don't have anything in common and we don't think the same and she rarely has anything positive to say to me.

There are times when I don't talk to her for a while and something in me misses her, misses what, I'm sure. She wasn't the best mother but I guess it could have been mush worse. My father wasn't all that great either but he and I have a much better relationship because he is always supportive and encouraging of me, even if he doesn't agree with my choices.

Well, I don't mean to go on about that, I am sorry you had to go through what you did Karen :hug: But you are obviously a strong person today and you should be proud of that ... I know Amber must be proud to have someone like you as a Mom :D

[LaceyinPgh]

Amber says the same thing about me. I'm trying to be a martyr. So I tried to go into counseling, but I hate blaming all my problems on my Mother. It's like, you get so tired of saying, "if it wasn't for this, I would be such a wonderful person right now." Because the answer is always, "make it wonderful for yourself, regardless of how you were raised." I know that this is always going to be the answer, but it's so hard for me to let it go. I think if I got one apology from my Mother, it would heal a lot of wounds. But she says that she did nothing wrong, I am the one who hurt the family, and I am the one to blame for everything. So we are at this impasse and that's where we sit to this day.
My mother confronted my grandmother one day. My grandmother's response was that my mother needed to get over herself. My grandmother said she was a good mother. (Not letting her kids go to school, never clenaing the house, going days without seeing if they had baths or something to eat, leaving them in the car all day while she went shopping, telling her kids that their father was having affairs and he liked the kids from those better than them. You know all the hallmarks of good motherhood!) My mother was just whiny and sensative.She also told my mother that she (grandmother) learned to accept that her life was always going to be unhappy and miserable so my mother might as well too. Tha is when my mother finally just cut my grandmother out of her life.

The therapy isn't allowing my mother ot blame my grandmother. It is helping her come to terms with the issues that were caused by her parents. It is helping her realize that she is allowed to be happy. She is allowed to be content. She is allowed to live a life with no guilt or drama. She is allowed to focus her energies on herself.

[WebLady]

Karen, my grandmother was the exact same way with my mother. My mother can do nothing right but my three uncles can do no wrong. My mother was taught that she had to give up everything for her 3 brothers. Education was wasted on girls. One of the biggest fights my mother and grandmother ever had was when my mom "let" me go to college. My grandmother saw no reason that I shouldn't have just gotten married and had a baby. She told my mother that my mother was already causing me to be behind in life because she let me finish high school. (I mean who the hell doens't want to get married at the ripe old age of 16 to start cranking out babies.)
I can't believe someone would still feel this way :bbeek: And even if they did they shouldn't force those opinions on someone else. Lacey I am sorry you and your mother had to deal with this :hug:

... My mother has a lot of self esteem issues. She has a lot of martyr issues. She has a lot of nothing I ever do is good enough issues I saw that growing up and decided that there was no way in hell I was going to let other people's ignorant choices have an impact on my life. My mother made sure of the same thing. I commend you for the way that you raised Amber. I'm close to my mother but to be honest, I am very glad that she finally is seeing a professional about her issues. It is slowly making her a happier person.
My mother has alot of issues do to how she was raised, I don't know the whole story about my grandmother but she was similar to yours. My grandmother is dead and my grandfather has nothing to do with my mother. I know this has to have alot to do with how she is and I try to understand that. I've even tried to help her feel better about herself and get over it, but I don't think my mother will ever be happy.

Me, I've had alot of 'nothing I ever do is good enough' issues as well as others, but I am a much better person today than I was when I got married at 18 just to try and have my own life.

My mother confronted my grandmother one day. My grandmother's response was that my mother needed to get over herself. My grandmother said she was a good mother. (Not letting her kids go to school, never clenaing the house, going days without seeing if they had baths or something to eat, leaving them in the car all day while she went shopping, telling her kids that their father was having affairs and he liked the kids from those better than them. You know all the hallmarks of good motherhood!) My mother was just whiny and sensative.She also told my mother that she (grandmother) learned to accept that her life was always going to be unhappy and miserable so my mother might as well too. Tha is when my mother finally just cut my grandmother out of her life.
I've tried to confront my mother about my issues with her and she just cries and blames her parents and says that she did everything she could. Well like I said before, it could have been worse but it could have been much better. She just never wants to admit that she may have done something wrong. I thing she needs therapy, hell our whole family does :bblol:

Anyway, I am trying to be a better person. My sister loves to tear me down because I depend on my husband more now. But I have done it all on my own before and I could do it again if I had to.

Ok, I don't know where I am going with this so I am gonna stop ;)

[ladymelissa]

I am so sorry you ladies had to deal with this type of thinking. I had no idea this sort of thing was still going on b/c even my grandmas always supported education and told us (my sis and I) that we can do anything we want to. My grandma would tell me repeatedly when I was young to get your education, travel the world and then think about marriage.

[LaceyinPgh]

I am so sorry you ladies had to deal with this type of thinking. I had no idea this sort of thing was still going on b/c even my grandmas always supported education and told us (my sis and I) that we can do anything we want to. My grandma would tell me repeatedly when I was young to get your education, travel the world and then think about marriage.
My dad's family was very supportive of education. My parents were very supportive of education as well. Going to college was never an option. Saying I couldn't do something was never an option. College was just the next step in life. Also, they would have been very disappointed if I only has a Bachelor's degree. My mother's family on the other hand are a bunch of rednecks and hillbillies who; "Ain't got no education. Ain't ever gonna need no education.They are doin' good in life. And, you is just a stuck up city snob when you come prancin' around thinkin' you is all better and educated." They are idiots. Frankly, I don't waste the precious time I have on them because of this a million other things.