View Full Version : almost lost an eye last night
A month ago, we had to put down Kurts 13 yo black lab, the very next day, we got an 8 week old yellow lab and named him Scotch-short for Butterscotch-his color
I am his chew toy, he does NOT chew on anyone else, only me
last night, I was down on the floor playing with him, and this is what happened.............so close to losing my eye
there is a tooth mark in my eyebrow area too you just can't see it in the pics
when it happened, I could just see his mouth coming down on my eye, and didn't have time to block it
I immediately covered my eye and yelled for Kurt
when he came, I was scared to move my hand, I could actually see the blood and swelling without even looking down
today, it's swelled and still thumping and my eye waters once in a while
I had to go to the doc last night for a bp check and he said I am VERY lucky
and yes, the cut marks are from his teeth, NOT his claws
I think the one under my eye will probably scar:irked:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch046.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch036.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch048.jpg
and what it looks like this morning, it is actually a little black and blue:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch059.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch058.jpg
NEVER play with a puppy when they have access to your face, lesson learned................:bbredface:
and here is the tazmanian devil, as Kurt calls him, right after he hurt me:
not a care in the world, while I'm holding ice on my face...........
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch054.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch055.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/scotch057.jpg
he weighed 7 lbs 3 weeks ago, last night he weighed 22 lbs:ooh:
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 10:54 AM
Ouch!! You are very lucky! My DH's golden sounds alot like Scotch. When Jack plays with DH he never goes after him with his teeth, but he puts me at the same level in the pack as he does the other dogs and always bites at me when we are playing. He isn't vicious when he does this, but being 75+ lbs, I don't think that Jack realizes how strong he is. I can cuddle him and he will be the sweetest boy one minute and the next minute all I see are teeth coming at me. I taught him to shake a while ago, and when he shakes for me I get wrinkled nose and bared teeth- when he shakes for DH he is like a little prince. DH thinks it is funny that he acts like this with me, and it is to a point, but it means that I'm not held to that Pack leader status that I need to be. Time to work on that pecking order! Sounds like you need to do the same! Hope you feel better soon and it doesn't scar up.
I need the dog whisperer
he listens to Kurt and Kurts kids, just not to me
:irked:
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 11:08 AM
I need the dog whisperer
he listens to Kurt and Kurts kids, just not to me
:irked:
That tells me that you are not giving off the right kind of energy. I have this problem too. It stinks when I will be telling the dogs to sit, or stay or whatever and they don't do it, but when DH says it, they instantly listen. - I also think it has to do with the female voice not being a deep at the male, but I have seen many female dog trainers that command the respect they deserve.
It isn't easy, but if Scotch sees you as his equal, he won't ever listen. Who feeds him? That might be one of the best places to start to get him to respect you. By controlling the food, that tells Scotch that you are in charge. I have had to make some drastic changes in the way I treat our dogs to establish the pack order. With 4 big dogs, we had major craziness at our house before we had a trainer come in and teach us some tricks. We haven't mastered them yet, but some of the big no-nos were were doing were:
1) Free feeding - by always having food available, they were better than the humans. Now we feed twice a day, and only after we have eaten. Top dog eats first.
2) Letting them sleep in the bed - The top dog should always have the best bed. We still have problems with Jack in the bed, and DH likes him there, so until I convince DH that he is teaching Jack bad things, this will be a struggle.
3) Letting them on the furniture - I don't mind them on the couch at all if we are not on it, but if I want to lay down on the couch, the dogs get kicked off. Again - top dog gets the best place to lay down.
4) Treats for no reason - we gave cookies when we came home, so that created alot of craziness with all 4 meeting us at the door happy that treats were coming next. Now we ignore them when we come in the door, and go about our business. After they are settled we will speak to them and on occasion give them a cookie, but they have to sit for it. No more free treats!
It is work to establish the pack and train them, but it will be worth it in the end. I love my pups!
Kurt feeds and waters him
although he's famous already for sneaking to the cat food bowls and eating that too, and I feed the cats
he is a perfect angel, for everyone except me
I guess I spoiled him
even when he's in some sort of trouble, and Kurt puts him in his cage, he looks at me with his puppy eyes, and I let him out and hug and kiss him
:bbredface:
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 11:23 AM
Kurt feeds and waters him
although he's famous already for sneaking to the cat food bowls and eating that too, and I feed the cats
he is a perfect angel, for everyone except me
I guess I spoiled him
even when he's in some sort of trouble, and Kurt puts him in his cage, he looks at me with his puppy eyes, and I let him out and hug and kiss him
:bbredface:
Step one- You take over feeding him and make him sit before you put his food down. Pick up the cat food and put it somewhere that the cats can get to, but Scotch can't.
Step two - Stop letting him out of his kennel when he is in time out. As much as we want them to be our babies - he is a dog, and needs to know he is a dog. Time out in the kennel won't hurt him at all. In fact, lots of dogs like their kennels because it is a safe place for them.
Step three- Give him attention on YOUR terms, not his. It is cute when a puppy nudges you for attention but when he gets to be 80 lbs, the cuteness factor wears off. When he is being a good boy, praise him and love on him, but you need to be the one that initiates it so he knows he isn't in charge.
We are guilty of spoiling ours too, and with one dog or even two, you can get away with that. With the merge of our households making us a 4 dog family something had to be done because the "kids" were taking over.
we have a 4 yo black lab too, but he's outside in his kennel most of the time, but it's too cold out right now to put the puppy out
Kurt says he's not letting the puppy upstairs with me anymore, that he's keeping him in the family room at night...........
but I want him to listen to me, I'll be the one to walk him and stuff
WebLady
02-18-2009, 11:35 AM
Yikes! Sorry you got hurt and hope you heal well!
I agree with Kelly's post above except I don't think you should ever use the crate as punishment (time out) for the dog; in many cases this will make the dog associate the crate as a bad place. Instead you just take away the reward; ignore them and walk away when they are acting up and they usually stop.
Dogs do things to get what they want; when they don't get what they want then they will move on to something else. And especially as a puppy, they have short attention spans and can be fairly easy to lead to a more appropriate activity.
In general, puppies will play rough, it is natural to them since that is what they do with their doggie friends and siblings using claws and teeth; they just don't understand you are different. You have to teach them what is appropriate play and what is not. The best way to do this is to give them good toys and such to play with and chew on and not to give into to them when they want to play and you don't.
There is nothing wrong with spoiling the dog and showing him love, as long as you don't let them walk all over you so to speak.
Good luck!
That's what I keep telling Kurt, he's in his cage all night long, and then during the day while we're at work, I dont' think using it to punish him is a good idea
and besides, he spends enough time in there
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 11:40 AM
Keeping him away from you isn't going to correct the problems and as much as Kurt would like to be the one to help make him listen to you, it isn't going to happen. You have to be the one to take control of the situation and show Scotch that you are boss.
Maybe pick up one of Cesar Milan's books and read it. My DH is reading "Be the Pack Leader: use Cesar's Way to Transform Your Dog...And Your Life"
http://books.google.com/books?id=6LlSAwAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&mode=1
While I haven't had the chance to read it yet, DH tells me that it is really good and that I need to read it when he is done. I guess this is where they talk about your energy and what you need to do to communicate in a way that your dog understands it. As far as walking him, have you started teaching him to be on a leash yet? We are working with ours right now and we have good days and bad days, but they are getting alot better. If you don't have one, invest in a martingale collar for walking. It has made a huge difference in our ability to control the boys on a walk since it works like a choke chain and cinches up when they pull on the leash, but it doesn't choke them to the point they can get hurt.
he has lots of toys, but for some reason he enjoys chewing on me, especially my hair
that's what he was doing last night, when he mistaked my face for my hair, lol
Keeping him away from you isn't going to correct the problems and as much as Kurt would like to be the one to help make him listen to you, it isn't going to happen. You have to be the one to take control of the situation and show Scotch that you are boss.
Maybe pick up one of Cesar Milan's books and read it. My DH is reading "Be the Pack Leader: use Cesar's Way to Transform Your Dog...And Your Life"
http://books.google.com/books?id=6LlSAwAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&mode=1
While I haven't had the chance to read it yet, DH tells me that it is really good and that I need to read it when he is done. I guess this is where they talk about your energy and what you need to do to communicate in a way that your dog understands it. As far as walking him, have you started teaching him to be on a leash yet? We are working with ours right now and we have good days and bad days, but they are getting alot better. If you don't have one, invest in a martingale collar for walking. It has made a huge difference in our ability to control the boys on a walk since it works like a choke chain and cinches up when they pull on the leash, but it doesn't choke them to the point they can get hurt.
Kurt says I need to talk to him in a more stern voice, but I just dont' have that kind of voice
in fact, when people call the house, they sometimes ask "is your mommy there"
omg, I AM the mom, I'm 40
but everyone says I have a little kid voice
and I'm NOT a yeller either
:bbredface:having a really hard time disciplining the cute little thing
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 11:46 AM
he has lots of toys, but for some reason he enjoys chewing on me, especially my hair
that's what he was doing last night, when he mistaked my face for my hair, lol
Yep - he thinks you are his doggie friend! Watch a pack of dogs play together and you will see the Scotch is treating you the very same way he would treat another dog.
ETA - as hard as it is to discipline him, if you don't, this is just the start of your troubles. Remember, he is going to get alot bigger and stronger! The good thing is that dogs don't hate you when you discipline them. They are the perfect example of what love should be.
SerendipityCrafts
02-18-2009, 11:53 AM
Re: your cut - get some aloe vera, polysporin or break open a vitamin E capsule
Lily once took a bite out of my inner thigh - ouch! I was holding her rope toy and she jumped so as to grab it higher up on the rope. I knew the bite was due to her being excited about the play but it still hurt!
1) Free feeding - by always having food available, they were better than the humans. Now we feed twice a day, and only after we have eaten. Top dog eats first.
The first time I fed Lily, she seemed to be waiting for permission to eat and so, I gave it to her. I have kept it up since then .... I tell her to sit, and then stay, I put down her bowl and then wait a few seconds before I say "ok". I thought it was just a "neat" trick but I have since found out that it's the "top dog" thing to do.
Re: the rest of your list, it sounds like we are doing ok :)
The best way to do this is to give them good toys and such to play with and chew on and not to give into to them when they want to play and you don't.
I don't give into Lily but DH does and so now she goes to him, makes chewbakka noises and if he doesn't play with her, it will escalate into very insistent barking. That is something he's working to fix because I can't handle it. I told him that if she doesn't, I will start barking at him too :rofl:
WebLady
02-18-2009, 11:53 AM
Yeah, I agree that you have to take charge with the dog; no one else is going to make him respect and listen to you.
The "right" way to train dogs is a subject that can cause some debate; there are all sorts of books and shows out there that discuss different methods. I personally think positive reinforcement is best, with a little bit of "I'm the boss" sort of thing worked in ;)
In general dogs love their people and usually want to be with them and will try to please them; you just have to teach them what you want from them.
How you teach them has to do with the breed and personality of the dog; you have to do what works best for you and the dog. Stronger, bigger, more dominant dogs might need a more firm handler, while smaller, more sensitive dogs might need a gentler trainer. You don't have to have a "Drill Sergeant" voice to command respect.
Me; I have dogs that can be stubborn with a "what's in it for me" attitude at times, but at the same time they are very sensitive and don't respond well with harsh training methods.
My dogs listen to me; the only time we ever have problems is when we are around strangers and that is mostly because of the reserved and sensitive nature of the breed. Sure I could try to work more with them, but I don't. They do listen to me more than DH, but that is because I am with them more and I am the one that takes care of them. They will listen to DH when I am not around and that is the best we can ask for right now since DH works and doesn't really have time to work with them much himself.
It does bother me sometimes when we go on walks together and Roxy is worse on lead with him than she is with me, and that Enzo just wants to be with me ... we will have to work on that at some point too.
WebLady
02-18-2009, 11:58 AM
I don't give into Lily but DH does and so now she goes to him, makes chewbakka noises and if he doesn't play with her, it will escalate into very insistent barking. That is something he's working to fix because I can't handle it. I told him that if she doesn't, I will start barking at him too :rofl:Enzo and Roxy will both beg (whine and/or bark) for attention sometimes too. When I don't want it I will ignore them or walk away and it usually stops. DH will either give in or get mad and yell at them :whyme:
my worry is how fast he is growing, he gained 15 lbs in 4 weeks.........:bbeek:
I can barely handle him now, guess I'm not a good dog owner
WebLady
02-18-2009, 12:02 PM
my worry is how fast he is growing, he gained 15 lbs in 4 weeks.........:bbeek:
I can barely handle him now, guess I'm not a good dog owner
Big dogs grow fast ;)
Don't feel bad for yourself, make a change ... and do it before he grows up thinking is is ok to walk all over you! You can do it, you just have to put some dedicated and consistent work into it :frogg: Get some yummy treats, a couple of fun toys, a clicker and a long training lead :)
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 12:04 PM
I'm excited because we just signed up our two young'uns for a training class with a really good trainer. It is a group class, but one of the areas we need help with is socialization with Jack so I think it will be great. He is afraid of everything so we have seen some fear aggression in him and we want to nip that in the bud. The bad thing is the classes don't start until the end of March so we will continue doing what we are now and hope that we aren't teaching them any more bad things! :o
We use the positive reinforcement training methods with our boys too and I agree that it is the best way to work with them. Ours love being with their people and we love them being with us. We hope to get ours to a point where we are comfortable taking them all camping with us. Right now I can't imagine the chaos that we would have with all of them in the trailer! I would love get them to the point where they can be trusted off leash as DH's parents have 900 acres that we can go play on, but right now I know that would be a disaster because we haven't mastered the come when called command.
WBandMe
02-18-2009, 12:08 PM
Wow, how scary! I'm glad nothing worse happened to you. Re: getting him to listen to you--I don't know. We've had our dog nine years and she knows commands, but it's hit or miss if she'll obey. I hope you are able to get Scotch to learn to obey you!
Big dogs grow fast ;)
Don't feel bad for yourself, make a change ... and do it before he grows up thinking is is ok to walk all over you! You can do it, you just have to put some dedicated and consistent work into it :frogg: Get some yummy treats, a couple of fun toys, a clicker and a long training lead :)
Kurt says it's already too late, we've had him a month today:bbeek:
and Kurt also says dogs only listen to one person, or one persons commands, and since he's always listened to Kurt, that he'll never listen to me
is that true???????
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 12:09 PM
my worry is how fast he is growing, he gained 15 lbs in 4 weeks.........:bbeek:
I can barely handle him now, guess I'm not a good dog owner
Yep...big dogs grow very fast! If you think he is putting on too much weight too fast, cut his food back. Are you feeding a quality food? I have found that when I wasn't feeding a food that had meat as the to 3 ingredients, my boys had to eat alot more to get full. Now we feed about 2 cups per dog a day and they are 60 lbs, 75 lbs and 85 lbs. We need to get some weight off of the 85 pounder, so we are trying to cut his portions back some.
You are not a bad dog owner - you love Scotch and that is obvious. What you need to do is become an educated dog owner and learn how to communicate with him. As humans we forget that dogs don't understand our ways of thinking. They have their own mentality and we have to learn it and treat them accordingly. Are there any good trainers in your area? Maybe you and Scotch could go attend a puppy basics class and you would feel better about things.
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 12:12 PM
Kurt says it's already too late, we've had him a month today:bbeek:
and Kurt also says dogs only listen to one person, or one persons commands, and since he's always listened to Kurt, that he'll never listen to me
is that true???????
NOOOOOOOO!!! It isn't too late at all! Dogs want to please their people - we have had ours for over a year (the young'uns are about a year and a half old) and have seen changes in their behavior since we modified ours. It is a learning process for both of you. Sounds like Kurt needs to read Ceasar's book too!
All human members of the dogs pack should be above the dogs and make them listen. I'm not going to tell you it is easy, but it can be done with work and the knowlege of how to communicate with them.
he eats Puppy Chow, and kitten chow if he makes it to the cats food dish before me, lol
no dog trainers, I am an hour from any major city where you'd find a trainer
I never had a puppy before, the old lab we put down was Kurts when we met and the 4 yo old lab, it was summer when we got him and Kurt spent all the time with him outside, he was never in the house
Kurt is awesome with dogs, I keep telling him in his next life he needs to be a dog trainer, and he intimidates me because he is so good at it, and I just feel like a failure with the puppy
I can't even walk the 4yo, he pulls me all over the place, he's over 100lbs, PURE solid muscle
and that is how the puppy is going to be from the looks of it
he and the older dog walk perfect for Kurt, as soon as I take the puppies leash, he sits on his butt and starts chewing on the leash
if I take the 4yo's leash, he takes off running like he's chasing a rabbit
for Kurt, they both walk at his leg, never a step in front of him, like little angels
SerendipityCrafts
02-18-2009, 12:18 PM
Kurt says it's already too late, we've had him a month today:bbeek:
and Kurt also says dogs only listen to one person, or one persons commands, and since he's always listened to Kurt, that he'll never listen to me
is that true???????
Sorry Kurt but that's just not true.
Lily came to us when she was just over a year old. She listens to both DH and I (albeit sometimes reluctantly LOL). Following Kurt's logic she shouldn't listen to us at all because, she had another owner/family before us.
Old dogs can learn new tricks. We have already taught Lily stay, come, lie down and roll over. Teaching/conditioning/showing your dog to listen to you is definitely do-able!
WebLady
02-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Kurt says it's already too late, we've had him a month today:bbeek:
and Kurt also says dogs only listen to one person, or one persons commands, and since he's always listened to Kurt, that he'll never listen to me
is that true???????
Sure there are some dogs that tend to be more loyal to one owner, but I don't think that a Lab/Retriever is that dog.
And it is never too late! You CAN teach even an old dog new tricks ;) You just have to be dedicated, determined and consistent! It is not going to be better overnight, but with consistent training it will come. The problem will be that you and Kurt will have to do the same things with Scotch or he will get confused. That is why people have problems with dogs behaving differently with certain people; they are not consistently the same with them.
As for him eating the cats food; I would feed him and the cat separately and keep them that way until they are both done. If the cat does eat all its food then take it up and give it to him again later, away from Scotch. Dogs don't need to eat cat food, they have differnt nutritional needs, plus it is a dominant thing. He is a puppy and will eat all day if given the chance ;)
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 12:24 PM
Kurt is awesome with dogs, I keep telling him in his next life he needs to be a dog trainer, and he intimidates me because he is so good at it, and I just feel like a failure with the puppy
Okay...I'm amending my previous post -
Step 1: Quit being intimidated by Kurt and ask him to be supportive of teaching you how to work with the dogs. As long as you feel like a failure with the puppy, the pup will sense that and you will be telling him non-verbally that he can ignore you and treat you like another dog.
Search the net to see if you can find an independent trainer near you. Try this link to search for a certified trainer: http://www.apdt.com/ You might get lucky!
WebLady
02-18-2009, 12:29 PM
Okay...I'm amending my previous post -
Step 1: Quit being intimidated by Kurt and ask him to be supportive of teaching you how to work with the dogs. As long as you feel like a failure with the puppy, the pup will sense that and you will be telling him non-verbally that he can ignore you and treat you like another dog.
I completely agree! Unless you are never going to have anything to do with the dog, you will have to be in charge just as much as Kurt is and they should behave for you too ... your husband should be supportive of that!
Maybe he is a better trainer, but you can learn! You don't have to be super trainer to get the dogs to behave. Big dogs will certainly take more so that they don't pull you and such, but it can be done. Don't be intimdated by the dogs, they will sense that too ... you just have to be dedicated and take the time to make things better.
I think Kurt has given up on my ability since I still can't get the 4 yo to walk with me
last night he said he's banning me from the puppy before he really hurts me worse
SerendipityCrafts
02-18-2009, 12:35 PM
As for him eating the cats food; I would feed him and the cat separately and keep them that way until they are both done. If the cat does eat all its food then take it up and give it to him again later, away from Scotch.
If your cat is young enough and able to jump, you might consider leaving the cat food out of reach - like on a counter. Our kitty is too old to jump so we have put her food, water and little box into one room, put up a barrier and then cut a kitty door in the barrier.
:rofl: I assume, you will need a taller barrier to keep scotch out
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1277/3169267682_b6fc724937.jpg?v=0
WebLady
02-18-2009, 12:35 PM
I think Kurt has given up on my ability since I still can't get the 4 yo to walk with me
last night he said he's banning me from the puppy before he really hurts me worse
You can't be afraid of your dog ... if you are going to share your life with these dogs, you AND your FH have to be dedicated to properly train them.
ETA - Accidents happen; even trained, you might still get scratched or whatever. You and Kurt, as the dogs' owners/handlers have to teach them what is acceptable behavior ... and learn how to and now not to play with them so that play time doesn't get out of hand ... it is part of having a dog.
It sounds like you are afraid and don't think you can do it and that your FH is not being supportive.
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 12:41 PM
I think Kurt has given up on my ability since I still can't get the 4 yo to walk with me
last night he said he's banning me from the puppy before he really hurts me worse
This says he isn't supporting you at all to me. Maybe he is just trying to shelter you from being hurt, but it is wrong. If you are going to live in a household with dogs, you need to be able to control them. What happens if Kurt goes away for a week for some reason leaving you to take care of the dogs? You need to step up and learn how to be confident in your abilities with them and work as hard as you have to meet that goal.
Talk to Kurt and tell him what you need from him to do this. Ask him to teach you how to work the 4 year old to get him to walk nice on a leash. With mine, when they pull, I give a quick jerk to the lead to let them know to slow it down. I also walk better with them on a short lead giving them no more than about 2 feet of play to work with. When I give them all 6 feet of the leash they take over. The goal for me is to eventually get them to stay at my left side, walking my pace with all 6 ft of leash available. That is going to take consistant walking with them over and over until they learn what I want. Is it frustrating when they pull? Absolutely - Was I really frustrated when Wally got off the leash and took off and wouldn't come back to me when called? You bet I was, but I can't just give up and stop because they frustrate me. If I do that, none of us will ever learn anything.
You can do this! I know you can! You just have to make those changes and quit feeling like a failure. Measure your successes no matter how small they are and each day you will find new successes!
The cats are fed in the laundry room downstairs and in the kitchen upstairs, they always have dry food both places, and twice per day I give them canned wet food
whatever is left, Scotch will eat up
I don't want the cats on the counter, but yes, they could both jump
one is 1 1/2 yo and the other will be 3yo
Emi:
our beautiful 1 1/2 yo Maine Coon, or as Kurt calls him, the gentle giant, he weighs 14 lbs:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/ChristmasdecorationsandMaineCoon-30.jpg
and Hemi-our rescued kitten -actually we rescued his mom, and then she had the kittens and we kept him-he's 2 1/2:
he's the hunter of the family
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/BROCNBRETSMAMMA/ChristmasdecorationsandMaineCoon-2.jpg
Hemi will play with the puppy, to a point, but Emi runs and hides
This says he isn't supporting you at all to me. Maybe he is just trying to shelter you from being hurt, but it is wrong. If you are going to live in a household with dogs, you need to be able to control them. What happens if Kurt goes away for a week for some reason leaving you to take care of the dogs? You need to step up and learn how to be confident in your abilities with them and work as hard as you have to meet that goal.
Talk to Kurt and tell him what you need from him to do this. Ask him to teach you how to work the 4 year old to get him to walk nice on a leash. With mine, when they pull, I give a quick jerk to the lead to let them know to slow it down. I also walk better with them on a short lead giving them no more than about 2 feet of play to work with. When I give them all 6 feet of the leash they take over. The goal for me is to eventually get them to stay at my left side, walking my pace with all 6 ft of leash available. That is going to take consistant walking with them over and over until they learn what I want. Is it frustrating when they pull? Absolutely - Was I really frustrated when Wally got off the leash and took off and wouldn't come back to me when called? You bet I was, but I can't just give up and stop because they frustrate me. If I do that, none of us will ever learn anything.
You can do this! I know you can! You just have to make those changes and quit feeling like a failure. Measure your successes no matter how small they are and each day you will find new successes!
absolutely, Kurt is trying to protect me
with the 4yo, he's already hurt my shoulder so bad I had to go to the doc from his pulling
I'm going to talk to Kurt tonight and ask him to work with me
when Kurt does go anywhere, he puts the 4yo in his kennel and tells me not to let him out, because he will run away from me, and now he said he's putting the puppy in his cage so he doesn't hurt me
I'm not really afraid of either of them, well, maybe now I am, knowing how close I was to having serious damage to my eye
:huh:
Kfancii
02-18-2009, 12:54 PM
Keep us posted on how things are going. I hope that Kurt will support you and teach you how to handle the dogs. I think that would make ALL of you much happier! Good Luck!
Keep us posted on how things are going. I hope that Kurt will support you and teach you how to handle the dogs. I think that would make ALL of you much happier! Good Luck!
thanks
the older dog, the one we had put to sleep was so good for me, must've been his age
so I always walked him, and Kurt walked the 4yo
NOW< I need a dog to walk this summer while we're camping, and neither one of them will listen to me
I have until April 10th to get one of them to work with me, that is when we take our camper back to the island where we camp all summer
that is my goal, and to get the puppy to stop chewing on me
I have so many marks on my hands and feet it's not even funny
I keep watching the dog whisperer too, but so far, haven't seen him train a young puppy like Scotch is
WebLady
02-18-2009, 01:09 PM
Maybe you should get a book as well as talk to Kurt about helping you work with the dogs.
You really just need to learn about canine behavior and how to communicate what you want to your dogs.
It really is not hard when you put your mind to it, just takes time and consistancy.
:goodluck:
Maybe you should get a book as well as talk to Kurt about helping you work with the dogs.
You really just need to learn about canine behavior and how to communicate what you want to your dogs.
It really is not hard when you put your mind to it, just takes time and consistancy.
:goodluck:
why can't they just be good like my kitties?????????
:)
WebLady
02-18-2009, 01:20 PM
why can't they just be good like my kitties?????????
:)
LOL - I guess dogs do take more time and training that cats, but the reward is worth it; at least IMO it is ;)
I get the feeling you are just not as much of a dog person; did you even want the puppy? Dogs are not just going to be perfect little angels without training.
You BOTH have to be able to work together to make sure you both can control both of the dogs.
I wish you guys all the best!
OH yes, the puppy was my idea
I thought it would help us after we had to put the older lab to sleep
and it has
I do love dogs, but they just are naughty, unlike my cats
WebLady
02-18-2009, 01:34 PM
OH yes, the puppy was my idea
I thought it would help us after we had to put the older lab to sleep
and it has
I do love dogs, but they just are naughty, unlike my cats
Kids can be naughty too unless they are taught that certain behavior is not acceptable ;) It is the same with dogs, it is just the training methods are different. Left untrained dogs only have instinct and what they see and learn on their own to rely on.
I am not a dog trainer and my dogs are not perfect, but we are content with the way they are, even with their quirks. They are on the small side too because I personally didn't want to have to deal with a larger more powerful dog.
Anyway; I really hope you guys can figure out how to make life with the dogs better so no one gets hurt anymore and everyone is happy :)
Whitewater
02-18-2009, 02:15 PM
Man, I feel for your situation!
It's good that Kurt is trying to protect you, but you don't need protection, you need the tools that he apparently already has, so that you can be with your dogs safely and teach them to be well-mannered with you. Keeping Scotch away from you will not solve the problem, in fact, it's likely to get worse because when you *are* available, Scotch will see you as a rare treat to play with -- possibly even given to him as a reward by Kurt -- instead of as the pack leader who's always around and commands respect.
As Kurt to think about how he interacts with your dogs, and see if he can't tell you what he does. Also, watch Kurt interacting and notice his body language, what he does and doesn't do, when he gives them treats, and so on. After you see what he does, you can begin to copy him.
Oh, and it's not your voice that's causing a lack of respect. It's that you don't really think you're able to control your dogs. You're afraid of them and have no self-confidence. Your body, your hands, your energy all tells your dogs that in fact, you're the lowest member of your pack -- the omega female. No wonder you can't control your dogs! From their point of view, the omega member has no rights, no status, and doesn't get any respect.
You need to change your status from omega to Alpha. You and Kurt should be the alpha male and alpha female in your home.
Change your posture. Stand up straight. Look your dogs in the eye -- and look at them until they look away. Tell yourself that yes, you CAN work with these dogs. They're only dogs, they're not monsters. Change your energy. Come into it with positive expectations, instead of fearful, negative expectations. Tell your dogs without words that you are their boss and that you expect them to treat you with respect -- all through your energy and your body language, your posture and so on. And if they don't treat you with respect, take it from them. Stop free feeding and make your dogs work for their food. Feed them one piece of kibble at a time, if you have to, until they figure out that you have control of their food.
As far as the biting and playing goes, that needs to STOP. Right now. Because as a puppy, it's cute, but as you've already learned, big dogs climbing all over you and biting is not cute at all and can cause serious harm. And his 'play' isn't play anymore -- he's putting you in your place as the lowest dog on the totem pole in your house. You need to change all that, and do it quickly.
Happily, there's a VERY easy solution to all of this, and it's something that ANYBODY can do.
When Scotch plays with you and he does something you don't want him to do (if it were me, I'd stop him when he does anything besides be submissive and gentle, but he's your dog, so you get to choose which behaviors you want), -- particularly biting -- all you have to do is yelp 'OUCH' in a loud, high-pitched voice, get up, and walk away. And then ignore him until he starts giving you the behaviors you want to see, like being calm and submissive. Or coming to you to play without biting. Then you can reward the behaviors you want!
Seriously. That's it. Very quickly, Scotch will learn what the boundaries are (though if he's anything like my youngest dog, he'll try to push the boundaries on you, once he's learned them. Be consistent!) and you will have solved the biting issue. It will take a couple weeks of this, but you should start noticing a difference sooner rather than later.
The reason this works is because of a natural behavior to dogs called 'bite inhibition'. When they are *very* young, like 6-8 weeks, to about 4-5 months old, puppies play in packs and they play with their moms. During this time, they have no idea how to adjust the strength of their bite -- they just haul off and bear down with their teeth. When they bite too strongly, the other dogs yelp and stop playing by walking away and ignoring the dog that bit too hard. Soon, the dog (who is learning how to play bite as opposed to biting to kill prey or eat food) learns what's acceptable and what's not. The yelping and then ignoring is an instinctive dog behavior that they use to teach other dogs what's ok and what's not ok, and we humans can imitate this with our dogs.
Most puppies that haven't got bite inhibition with their people were taken from their moms and sibs before they got a chance to get taught this skill of gentle biting from their moms and sibs. So now, because you're Scotch's new pack, YOU will have to teach him how to inhibit his bite.
I would also use this technique to inhibit his behavior too, but that's just me. I don't allow my dogs to jump or get into excited tizzies or crowd the door or whatever, because they're big dogs and they could hurt somebody or get hurt. I say 'Stop' in a firm tone and turn away from them, and ignore them until they calm down. My dogs also don't get food or attention unless they're calm and focused on me.
And I eat first! We never feed our dogs until after we've had our meal. They're also not allowed on the furniture and they're not allowed to pester our cat.
If you can't find a trainer near you, and if you have Animal Planet or the National Geographic channel on cable, watch "It's Me or the Dog" on Animal Planet or "The Dog Whisperer" on NatGeo. Both shows provide excellent advice for dealing with your dogs, though I tend to prefer the woman on "It's Me or the Dog" because she uses techniques that are more down-to-earth and less about the whole 'mystic communication' thing between dog and man. She's easier to follow at home!
Believe in yourself -- you CAN work with your dogs and have harmony with them. It's just like the Little Engine That Could: "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can . . . ." and don't let anybody tell you that you can't, Kurt included. You're a part of the family too, and a part of the pack, you NEED to learn how to be the leader. Whether it be by copying Kurt or reading a book or watching television or hiring a trainer, it has to happen.
Good luck!
Whitewater
Thank you everyone, you all gave me a lot of great advice and a lot to work on
Now, I just must be firm with him, something I'm not good at
I"m such a softie
and I think he may sense that
I just know that my face is NOT getting anywhere near him, because it's hurting like heck right now
gwenshack
02-18-2009, 02:53 PM
WOW! I'm just glad you still have your eye. That's crazy!
MrsDM
02-19-2009, 09:56 AM
Ouch!! I'm glad that he didn't get your eye though!
My furry brother Owen, (my parent's golden retriever) is so playful. Even at three, and 70 pounds, he still bites and claws when we is playing. You just can't take the puppy out of the dog!
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