If you have a few dollars to spare, please, read this and donate!

[CarlosHoney]

I just read this article, and it made me cry. I can't fathom why anyone would do this to their daughter, sister, cousin, and I just donated $20 to helping activists in Africa fight FGM. It's something that made me bawl, girls. I mean I cried like a baby, and woke up Elias who was sleeping in my lap, and I just held him and cried. :bbcry:

http://www.mothering.com/africablog/taking-on-fgm.html

There's some graphic description of "cutting" a baby girl, but keep in mind, this happens to like, 98% of the women if these countries. I just had to share this. They need all the help they can get!

ETA: Each Donation is being matched, so please, give whatever you can. It's really sad. :(

[usahgrad]

Great cause to post about Carrie! Thank you for sharing! We studied this in my world cultures class and it was absolutely appauling...this was paired up with Bride Burning and Throwing Acid. It's appauling that these kinds of things happen!

[CarlosHoney]

It is. I just shudder to think that these things happen. I didn't even get my baby circ'd because I felt that in a way, it was sort of the same thing. I couldn't do something to him that he doesn't understand.

FGM is so much worse, though! I just cry when I think about what is happening every day to those poor women!

[rainbowtreat]

This is a disturbing thing. Very disturbing. BUt circumsizing your baby is no way near that at all. I had my son circ. and I waitted to take my shower when the took him in. I was in the shower behind the closed bathroom door, my room door was closed and he was in the nursery with that door closed but I swear to god I still heard him cry and I cried. But I am glad I did it. It is harder to dealwith showing him how to clean it right so he didnt get infections if I didnt have it done. Nothing against you Carrie. Every oen has their own reasons. I worked in child care for many years with infants to 3 yr olds and many boys parents are opting not to these days.

[CarlosHoney]

Not trying to be offensive. I just have strong opinions.. But you know what they say about opinions, right? ;)

To further explain what I meant, though:

The reason that I feel they are sort of the same is that both are done to children without their consent. I feel that way about peircing a baby's ears, I felt that way about my Mom forcing me to perm my hair when I *really* didn't want to, and in fact, would run away from her and try to hide because I *hated* it.

I'm a really crunchy girl.. I'm all nataral about almost everything. And hey, that's the way that God made them. The foreskin serves a purpose, and in my opinion, it wouldn't be there if they didn't. Showing a little boy how to clean himself isn't really any harder than showing a girl..

In the Cultures that practice FGM, they really feel the same way about it that Americans feel about Circing their boys. They just think that it's the traditional/cleaner/healthier/appropriate thing to do. I think that the tide is turning in the USA though, and there are members of the Jewish and Muslum communities that are speaking out against it.

[countrygirl]

I am sorry, but I tried to read this, but couldn't. I have a very hard time seeing, hearig, or reading anything about this sort of thing. I hope it doesn't make me a bad person for not finishing the story. I am sure that those women deserve to have people read and understand what they are going thru. I can't do that. But I can keep them in my prayers, and hope that one day, with God's help, they will be free of the torture that they endure.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Not trying to be offensive. I just have strong opinions.. But you know what they say about opinions, right? ;)

To further explain what I meant, though:

The reason that I feel they are sort of the same is that both are done to children without their consent. I feel that way about peircing a baby's ears, I felt that way about my Mom forcing me to perm my hair when I *really* didn't want to, and in fact, would run away from her and try to hide because I *hated* it.

I'm a really crunchy girl.. I'm all nataral about almost everything. And hey, that's the way that God made them. The foreskin serves a purpose, and in my opinion, it wouldn't be there if they didn't. Showing a little boy how to clean himself isn't really any harder than showing a girl..

In the Cultures that practice FGM, they really feel the same way about it that Americans feel about Circing their boys. They just think that it's the traditional/cleaner/healthier/appropriate thing to do. I think that the tide is turning in the USA though, and there are members of the Jewish and Muslum communities that are speaking out against it.

In the future if we have a baby and he is a boy we will not have our child circumsized either! Like Carrie said, teaching them to clean it is not that difficult and as long as your child bathes every day there shouldn't really be any problems! My friend's sister had her baby circ'd and it started to bleed like crazy and the baby was in horriable pain! Yes he may not remember that but why put your child through a cruel procedure! Like Carrie, we believe that you are born that way, then why CHOP it off! lol. I think its better to leave things "au natural". JMO though, Not trying to start anything~

[CarlosHoney]

Yeah, the tides are turning on the Circ issue. The USA is really the only country in the world that does it for any reason other than religous. In Europe it is seen in the same light as FGM..

I saw a video of one done, as I mentioned, and I started crying. Crying the same way that I did when I read that article. The little baby screamed until there was nothing coming out. He just looked like he had no idea what was going on. He had no conception of why this pain was there. It broke my heart.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Yeah, the tides are turning on the Circ issue. The USA is really the only country in the world that does it for any reason other than religous. In Europe it is seen in the same light as FGM..

I saw a video of one done, as I mentioned, and I started crying. Crying the same way that I did when I read that article. The little baby screamed until there was nothing coming out. He just looked like he had no idea what was going on. He had no conception of why this pain was there. It broke my heart.

In Europe they don't circ unless it is for a health issue! Like the foreskin becomes grown ONTO the penis! But you are pretty well out of the norm if you are circ'd in parts of Europe! I don't know why but Europe just seems to be light years ahead of us when it comes to medical procedures and medications and such! I do not take regular meds very much because there are natural products that work ten times better that come from Germany! The great thing is you get the book out and answer questions about your syptoms (a lot of very particular ones!!) and then it tells you take this and take it this many times aday and do you know there hasn't been one time where I didn't feel better almost right away from taking it. Ok sorry off topic and rambling.

[CarlosHoney]

Boiron, the company that makes Oscillio, makes all kinds of homeopathic medicines. I like taking them. Oscillio is the #1 flu medication in France. It works great, too.

But, back to circ.. Yes. The Foreskin is attached to the head, the same way that a fingernail is attached to your finger. The AAP says that routine circ isn't nessecary, and that the best thing is to leave it alone completely. The only one who should retract it is the owner of the penis, and when it does retract (usually when they're 2 and older) you gently show them how to clean it.

And, yes, Europe is lightyears ahead of us in SO many ways. I'm tempted to move there. Over there, Circumcision is seen as barbaric if it isn't for a medical reason. No health orginization in the world sudjests doing them routinely...

Oh, and just an interesting tidbit of info-the reason that they started doing it in the Victorian era was because they wanted to curb masterbation. Circ causes a loss of sensation. You're cutting away a piece of skin that would have been the size of an index card. It makes it much less sensitive than it would be normally.. So they thought that men would be less likely to pleasure themselves... Yeah. They thought wrong.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Yes, my DH said there was a chance we could move to Germany, I was so excited! Then he tells me there is NO WAY he is going back to Germany! I was sad!! lol...But Europe is fantastic for their medical advances and views on medicine and treatments and circumsision!

Funny story:

When my little cousin was born the doc asked if they wanted to circ their son, my uncle got upset and looked at my aunt and said "hell no!! DOn't you want grandchildren!!??" YEAH! My uncle is a complete dumb bum!! He thought they wanted to castrate him!!!!! :bbeek: How dumb can you be? Guess thats what you get from a pig farmer's son!! (he is hill billy through and through!! He's a back woods red neck!! I mean I'm a hill billy but he's just.....stupid! lol)

[CindySue]

All boys have been circ'd on my dads side of the family. My grandfather had to be circ'd at 7 years old because the foreskin was tightening up around the end og the penis and was causing pain and was getting infections from the tearing. (it has a name...and usually happens in old age.) My uncles went through similar problems. They were told it was hereditary. My dad was done at birth. My oldest brother was done at 2 years, because of the same problem. Me, my brothers and my sisters may have jumped the gun by having all our boys done at birth, but we thought that was MUCH better than taking the chance of them having all those problems and having to have it when they were old enough to remember. The doctor that did all 3 of the boys uses a numbing gel and not one single boy shed a tear.

[tha_mrs]

my son didn't cry either! My nephew was cir'd at 7mths because he started to have a lot of problems.The infection got worsed and started to attack his kidneys.Then he got the procedure done,and nomore!

[Kacie_bride]

When I have children I will defiantely have it done because you can show them how to clean it, but will they? It is hard enough to get some little boys to bathe. I know of children that go into the bathroom and get their arms and hair wet to fool their parents into thinking they bathed. With all the infections that they can get I think it's better to be safe than sorry. But this is just me.

[CarlosHoney]

Kacie, I implore you.. Research before making a decision! I was going to do it because I figured since Carlo is, why not.. My insurance didn't cover it so we were going to have to pay for it. I looked into it and was shocked by what I read. Check out www.nocirc.com for more information.

I don't have much faith in the medical establishment.. And just remember, they make a killing doing it. Your little boy could get a botched job and loose more skin than is safe.. I've heard of boys loosing their whole winky.. And in some very bad cases, dying.

Circumsiced or not, little boys can be unclean down there.. And it's a fact that women produce more smegma (the smelly stuff) than men do.. But no one is rushing out to get their daughters circumcised..

I just feel like it's barbaric, unnessecary, and for the most part, the public isn't educated about it. I mean, it's there for a reason!! I just can't immagine cutting a slice from a baby that I carried for 9 months. That mother bear insticnct kicked in, and when they asked me at the hospital.. I gave them the most evil glare. No, leave him the way nature intended. Thanks.

[usahgrad]

While Jason may shoot me for sharing such a personal thing, he isn't. He was born prematurely and was PH baby (I think that's what it's called) so he was rushed off to another hospital. His mother didn't even get to see him, let alone someone to do that procedure. After being with him, I have to agree, it is extremely similar to some of the FGMs I have read about--especially in terms of pleasure points.

I believe that Jason will be a good enough father to teach his little boys what they need to do. It's hard to get little girls to bathe to, but you make sure they do because that's what parents do (no offense meant to anyone). I will not have my little boys circumsized unless it is necessary. However, I am not one to point a finger at anyone who does...

[CarlosHoney]

I apologise if I've offended anyone. I'm just really passionate about this.. And anyone who is passionate about something that they feel is wrong can't halp but to speak up.

Kelli, thanks for sharing!

[WhiskeyGirl]

I apologise if I've offended anyone. I'm just really passionate about this.. And anyone who is passionate about something that they feel is wrong can't halp but to speak up.

Kelli, thanks for sharing!

I am the same way, but I've been just sitting back and reading the posts instead of saying too much!!

I agree much with what Kelli said about her man being a good enough father to teach their sons how to properly wash. That is what I think of my man too! My DH came from Europe so you do the math. He has an older brother and father who are still intact as well!! Three men in one family and no infections and no circ! Its all about hygeine (even if I can't spell it!! lol) and I am sure that starting at the age where they can understand bit by bit about how they should keep it clean or something bad can happen they will grow to understand that this is an important thing to do!

However, if a person is like my aunt and uncle and don't know how to teach their son how to clean the foreskin, a person might end up with a dirty cousin like mine who is constantly playing with his willy because it is itchy!! I think alot of the infection problems can fall back on the parents because they DID NOT teach them how to clean!! The first time my DH met my cousin he was like Why The F*ck is he constantly touching himself, I said "everyone in the family knows its because he doesn't know how to clean himself properly!!!!!" My younger cousin same family was circd but he still does the same thing because he has the same problem with hygiene! Now tell me why I never see my male inlaws doing the same??? Because it is all about HYGIENE!!

I am also sorry if I offend anyone with what I say. It is not a personal attack on anyone's decisions, everyone does whats right for them!! Be it medical or just personal choice! I am just like Carrie, I like to put my opinions out there and if no one takes them, thats ok, I've said what I need to say. And I enjoy hearing what other people have to say as well!! Take care everyone!

[rainbowtreat]

My little brother is not for some reason of when eh ws born. But my mom is his only parent and she has had to learn and teach him how to clean it and he has no problems with it. It is up to the parent. I had it done to my son just because I didnt know any different. But he is fine and we have no problem with having the next if it is a boy circumsized. My FH is and it has never realy been a topic we have realy discussed. I think I would leave this one up to him. I never though tof this as being such a touchy subject. But to each their own I guess. We all have different views and as every one has stated, we all have our own opions. And this has to be the best forum , no one gets dumped on for stating their own views on such a major subject.

[Kacie_bride]

Kacie, I implore you.. Research before making a decision! I was going to do it because I figured since Carlo is, why not.. My insurance didn't cover it so we were going to have to pay for it. I looked into it and was shocked by what I read. Check out www.nocirc.com (http://www.nocirc.com) for more information.

I don't have much faith in the medical establishment.. And just remember, they make a killing doing it. Your little boy could get a botched job and loose more skin than is safe.. I've heard of boys loosing their whole winky.. And in some very bad cases, dying.

Circumsiced or not, little boys can be unclean down there.. And it's a fact that women produce more smegma (the smelly stuff) than men do.. But no one is rushing out to get their daughters circumcised..

I just feel like it's barbaric, unnessecary, and for the most part, the public isn't educated about it. I mean, it's there for a reason!! I just can't immagine cutting a slice from a baby that I carried for 9 months. That mother bear insticnct kicked in, and when they asked me at the hospital.. I gave them the most evil glare. No, leave him the way nature intended. Thanks.

I would consider myself educated about it. I asked Justin's opinion on the topic and he told me of a horrible story regarding his father. His father is not circumsiced and when he was a teenager he got an infection so severe that he had to be hospitalized. He said the pain was excrutiating. This was not due to bad hygenie either. A hair somehow got stuck up inside.

And on the subject that nature would not have put it there if it wasn't used for a function, we have an apendix that really has no function. There are the tonsils (yes they do have some function), however I know for personal experience that I am much healthier and happier without them.

I respect your opinion, Carrie. I know you are a really great mother and I'm glad you care so much about Elias. However, this is my opinion and when I have children this is what Justin and I have already decided for them.

[CarlosHoney]

Kacie.. Did the hair get stuck in the urethra? I've never heard of that happening before. Just curious..

I really wasn't trying to say that you are uneducated about it. I thought that I knew the whole story (or rather, thought that there wasn't much to know) and actually watched a circumcision on video. I totally changed my mind.

I think that anyone who wants one for their child should at least watch one on video if nothing else.. And definitley be in the room when they do it. But, that's just my opinion. Good luck with your kids! And thanks for the huge compliment. I really try to be a good Mama. :bbmrgreen:

[Kacie_bride]

Oh I wasn't taking any offense to it. I'm not really sure about how the hair got caught. Justin just briefly explained it to me. You know it's kinda of weird talking about your ffil that way ya know!

And thanks about the good luck with my future kids! It'll be a couple of years before we have any. Actually if it were totatlly up to me we would start trying right after the wedding.

[CindySue]

I know this is a touchy subject and to each their own. Everyone has to live with the decision they make and the reasons they make them. I dont regret having my boys circ'd. Not at all. If I have another boy he'd be done too, but thats MY opinion. It doesnt make me a bad mother for having it done.